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comeng
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Wizzy I would rather have the VFL as we know it rather than what you proposed.  I don't see how forcing two of the oldest teams in the comp, Port and Willy, into alignments wth AFL clubs while introducing three standalone nothing teams is keeping the history of the VFA alive.  All the alignments have ended in either VFL club going standalone (Port, Willy, Coburg & Werribee) or becoming a AFL reserves team by stealth (Box Hill Hawks, Northern Blues & Casey Demons).

The best I think that can be salvaged out of the comp is to revert to the VFA name as all the teams AFL or VFL started in the VFA.

 

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Ron Burger
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I admire your detailed and whimsical efforts wizardwaffle, but it is about as grounded in reality as the Loch Ness Monster and little green men from Mars. 

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wizardwaffle
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This is an image from a VFA publication a few years back. I have not altered it. It has a Kookaburra next to the Port Melbourne name as a symbol of the club, like the bullant for Preston below. So at some stage in the clubs history the change to the Kookaburras was considered. Also things are mentioned as the Burra Club Sports Night.

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wizardwaffle
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You may see that my findings are grounded in as much reality as the Loch Ness Monster and little green men from Mars. I have included pictures of both below for your enjoyment. But what I have presented here is probably the best outcome for the former VFA clubs in regards to a future VFL competition. 

AFL Victoria has a plan for a state wide competition which we saw to start to come in when they took over the VFA in 1995. This saw clubs such as Dandenong, Oakleigh and Prahran leave the then VFA. The vision of the future competition is based around the twelve teams of the Under 18's competition and aligning twelve teams with those twelve teams.

I would rather have a plan that sees ten clubs of the former VFA survive as the metropolitian clubs of the VFL and have new VFL clubs built around the four country Under 18s clubs. That staying in the VFL will make it necessary for clubs to align with AFL teams, this will bring money the way of the VFL teams.

You can say that two of the most recent premiers have been stand alone teams in Port Melbourne and Williamstown, but how long will that last. The funds that a AFL reserves team or a AFL aligned team can get will become larger and larger. We will see more stories like that of Frankston and North Ballarat, but we may not see the teams come back like Frankston did.

What we could be left with is a competition filled with AFL aligned teams and AFL reserves teams, and clubs like Port Melbourne and Williamstown playing in local competitions due to not being able to afford to finance a team in the VFL.

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Ron Burger
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"Best outcome for Old VFA clubs"?

Why would anyone in control at the AFL/AFL Victoria have any interest in old VFA clubs who are either dead (Brunswick/Springvale/Preston) or dying (most others)? 

What you're proposing is both backward thinking and ignores the fact that support for second tier football in the bush and suburbs as at an all time low. 

North Ballarat just folded. There's no support for a state level team in Gippsland or Albury. They're happy with their country leagues. Collingwood VFL isn't going to merge with a non-existent football club and move to Brunswick!?!? 

There's only 6 - Frankston, Coburg, Werribee, Sandringham, Port Melbourne and Williamstown - from the old VFA still surviving, one just went into recess for a year, one is about to go stand alone for the first time in a decade, the other is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. 

Come on please, get real.

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wizardwaffle
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Get real. I am talking about the oldest football competition in this country, if not the world. Keeping clubs alive like Port Melbourne and Williamstown are very important to keeping the link to the old VFA to the current VFL. Your six clubs that were old VFA clubs; Frankston, Coburg, Werribee, Sandringham, Port Melbourne and Williamstown, one of those clubs would go with the other clubs that were formerly VFA clubs as well in Box Hill, Northern (Preston) and Casey (Springvale). Sandringham would be St.Kilda's reserves club, like you would say Box Hill is Hawthorn's, Northern is Carlton's and Casey is Melbourne's reserves team. But haven't all of these clubs except one have been the hosts to reserves from the AFL at one stage, with Frankston being the old one out. But what we don't want to see if the AFL teams take over the VFL clubs and we get more Northern Blues. 

The problem with North Ballarat is that it was a team that is still in the Ballarat League that came into the VFL. They had success at first, and the people of Ballarat followed them then. But less money was coming into the club as the AFL teams left, and now they don't control Mars Stadium. But a team that represents all of Ballarat, and all of Greater Western Victoria would be created by creating a VFL team in the Greater Western Victoria (Ballarat) Rebels. By being in one team from the local league, bespite being a successful team, presented problems for the club. What about those that don't follow North Ballarat in the local league, would they follow them in the VFL. This would be different for a club that represents all of Ballarat and had the best footballers in the local leagues playing for them. They would be playing for them to get noticed by AFL clubs to make the step up to the AFL. Supporters will be following them as they will be representing the local area, not a club. This can also be done in Bendigo, Albury Wodonga and Morwell.

Why would the AFL be interested in the VFA? Well they took an interest in them in 1995 when they took over the league. If they weren't interested in the VFA then the competition would have ceased before now and the AFL would have created a new VFL from the teams in the Under 18s. The clubs wouldn't have the history of clubs like Port Melbourne and Williamstown, but has that stopped teams such as West Coast, Adelaide and Fremantle. But they did take an interest in the VFA.

But why would Collingwood be interested in bringing back to life a club like Brunswick. Well, first thing is both clubs are Magpies. But, Collingwood President Eddie McGuire was the number one ticket holder for the then Brunswick-Broadmeadows Football Club. To bring life back to the other Magpies of football in Victoria would interest McGuire, also bringing a senior football team to his home town of Broadmeadows.

We should all push for a VFL that saves the identity of as many clubs as possible but can be financially viable. A competition that takes football to the people, in Melbourne and in the country.

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Ron Burger
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Ok, I don't know how to break this to you lightly but....due to it being financially unviable, the VFA merged with the VSFL in 1994. There endeth the competition you seek to exhume from the grave with your proposal. 

As you may be aware, prior to the merger, Brunswick-Broadmeadows FOLDED in 1991. At present, the Collingwood Football Club runs an AFL, VFL and AFL Women's team out of the Holden Centre, with VFL home games played out at some place you may know called VICTORIA PARK, in Abbottsford. With an annual turnover of $100 million, they have no rational basis for entering into an agreement with a non-existent football club who hasn't fielded a team for 26 years....because it doesn't exist.....to then relocate to Brunswick (or Broadmeadows). 

By the way the Alec Gillon Oval is home to a VAFA D Grade club called NOBSPC-Brunswick, as well as the Brunswick Renegades Women's team. There is no decent football ground in Broadmeadows aside from where Jacana Football Club and/or Westmeadows Football Club play. Both grounds are local parks, and I stress, LOCAL and PARK.

As for your other examples, anyone who knows anything about the current VFL climate will tell you the VFA entities who are aligned with an AFL side are now complete shells. Minimal support base, negligible independent committee, and beholden to their AFL "masters". 

Geelong is a boom area, no way known would they give up their VFL entity, aligned with Geelong Falcons and their inevitable Women's AFL team to "save" Werribee. What about Williamstown and Port Melbourne? Do you intend to consign them to fielding 10 non-AFL players as "top ups" for North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs? What sort of a football club is that? Why have a President, Secretary, Treasurer, etc for a group of 10-25 players? 

Your regional arguments are baseless. Bendigo Gold folded due to minimal community support, likewise North Ballarat. To re-brand them is like putting lipstick on a pig. Gippsland and Albury have never shown any interest in going beyond their local country leagues. 

Where does the money come from to start up something that doesn't provide a compelling business case? 

The VFL will become a competition with 10 independent AFL reserves teams (nil alignment) and perhaps two or three stand alones within 5 years.

What you propose will never come to fruition despite how romantic it appears on paper.

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wizardwaffle
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So I should forget about the VFA. I have been putting the history of that competition onto the computer for over five years now. If you care to look at the VFA/VFL Jumpers subject in the VFA History forum. I have put what I believe would be the ideal VFL competition down on this forum.

Clubs like Bendigo Gold were pushed into a marriage with Essendon and where not seen as a separate club from then on. People will come out to see their local boys take on the boys from the city. These would more representative sides of the local leagues, and be seen as a place from Country Victorian footballers to display themselves in front of the AFL scouts. I put the club in Albury Wodonga so that players in southern NSW could also be involved. Many of the Giants players come from this area, and the next batch of them could be displayed with an Albury Wodonga team.

But I should think of things like this because you said the the VFL will be 10 AFL reserves teams and a few stand alone teams soon enough. May I ask which teams will leave the current VFL so we can tell them to hurry up, or don't you want to say who they are?

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Ron Burger
Last seen: 7 hours 57 min ago
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Absolutely - stop being a historian who seeks to return to/exhume a competition which was cannibalised by the AFL 20 years ago. 

Bendigo and Ballarat don't give a shit about "local country players" playing against the boys from the city. If they had, their VFL teams wouldn't have gone bankrupt and/or had their licences revoked would they? There's minimal interest/support for the concept in those towns. People are focused on AFL only, or their local teams. 

Likewise, for Albury/Wodonga and Gippsland, the travel factor is too great, and local communities won't get behind the concept. If the AFL research from 2005-2012  had suggested otherwise, they wouldn't have put their coin into AFLW and GWS/Gold Coast would they?

In the end - where's the money for your proposal going to come from?

We all know it all trickles down from HQ, and they won't even invest in and entire state - Tasmania (population 500k) - beyond a half baked AFLW team in partnership with North Melbourne. 

Wake up and smell the coffee.

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wizardwaffle
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From the ABC VFA broadcast from 1994 about the future of the VFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38CxohlX34A

Play to win
Always Hawthorn
Three-peat Premiers
Premiers 2013 2014 2015
Going for Four in a row in 2016

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