http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/03/07/117316…
Quote:THE AFL is exploring the idea of creating a national reserves competition, a league that would replace the various state-based competitions as the second tier of the game and involve a return to the days of "firsts" and "seconds". The option, one of several being examined as part of a review of the relationship between the AFL and the competitions closest to it, would be expected to increase list sizes to a minimum of 55 players. It would sever the alignments that have existed, in Victoria for example, between nine of the state's 10 AFL clubs and the VFL since the demise of reserves football a decade ago. Fourteen of the 16 AFL clubs have been briefed on the national reserves competition proposal and several other alternatives, including the idea of an eastern seaboard reserves competition and a stand-alone Victorian reserves competition that would effectively relegate the Victorian Football League to third-tier status. The AFL Victoria board was briefed on Tuesday night, with other state bodies, principally the SANFL and WAFL, to whom Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Fremantle and West Coast farm out players not selected for a senior game, to be consulted next. The impact an AFL reserves competition would have on the profile and quality of the WAFL, SANFL and VFL is expected to produce serious opposition to the idea from all three leagues. While the consultative process is far from complete — the review is expected to continue through much of this year and is unlikely to have any changes introduced before the 2009 season — it is understood that several AFL clubs have indicated enthusiasm for the creation of a national reserves competition. But more of the Victorian clubs have expressed interest in a 10-team Victorian league. Either way, all have endorsed the idea of doing away with the farm system and of reclaiming or, in the cases of the South Australian and West Australian sides, gaining total control over the welfare and development of players from draft day onwards. David Matthews, the AFL's general manager of national and international development, said the reintroduction of reserves football was being considered as the code looked to how it might satisfy its need to grow and develop. "It's a second-tier review we're conducting because we're keen to review the structures of football below the AFL competition and how appropriate they are for the development of the game," Matthews said. "It's a national project, not one concerned with state boundaries, that we hope will serve the game across the country for the next 10 or 20 years at least." One of the appeals for the AFL of a reserves competition, either national or state based, is the access as many as 200 or more players could get to the elite AFL system, a figure far beyond any other elite sport in this country. "We promote pretty heavily at the moment that the AFL offers 640 jobs for elite athletes at an average salary of $200,000. So in theory, that would allow us to offer even more opportunities than we do against other sports. That said, the AFL competition still has to be elite," Matthews said. But the likelihood of change is being sold to the clubs on the grounds that the widening gap — financial and otherwise — between the state leagues and the AFL is starting to fail them both. "There's a bottom-up perspective, which is how clear and how good is the pathway for a talented young player coming up through the system?" Matthews said. "There is also a top-down perspective, which is from the AFL competition's position, that asks how well are we meeting the needs of AFL clubs who want to develop their listed players and how and in what environment are we going to meet their needs? "We then need to ask: can we make structural improvements across Australia or do we need to look at different structures to service our future needs?" 1: Present model remains or does so with minor changes. 2: A 10-team Victorian-based AFL reserves competition. 3: A 12-team eastern seaboard AFL reserves competition including Brisbane and Sydney. 4: A 16-team national AFL reserves competition.
Discuss! I would be f%^king filthy if they think that is the solution. Why does the AFL not invest more money in the VFL and the other state competitions? The Victorian clubs would have to be given a million or so to help pay for the staff/players/other admin costs, why doesn't that money go to the VFL to improve facilities? I'm seriously pissed off reading this. I know some people think it would be great for the VFA to stand alone, but I don't think thats realistic in the current environment.
Dolphin Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 09:52
The AFL does invest money in the State competitions. More than half of the revenue of the VFL comes from the AFL. This article has the wrong focus and should simpoly have been about a "number" of options for the future, all of which have been discussed for moree than a year during this review. Don't stress too much over a badly written article.
vfa Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 09:56
This would be basically AFL reserves if this ever happened. I cannot see clubs like Port Adelaide Magpies or East Fremantle Sharks or Port Melbourne agreeing to this. These clubs have been around a very long time. Better off if the stupid AFL reserves went back to pre 2000 days and let the other comps run their own without sticking their beaks in and wrecking the games of Australian Rules Football. With all the rule changes as well and the pathetic NAB (Knob) Cup the AFL are becoming a big joke. Can you see the SANFL agreeing to this ? I doubt it very much.
GOALdenHawk Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 11:03
Surely it won't get up in that format: - How are clubs like the Kangaroos going to afford paying 55 players? Let alone the costs associated with running another team, especially if it is a 16 team comp and they have to fly interstate 7-8 times a year. - I don't think the mix would work. Lots of 18 year old kids would have to play AFL Reserves straight away, instead of the current set up where many of them (especially rookies) play VFL Reserves. - The VFL, SANFL and WAFL would all fall over within 3 years. No way known they could survive as a "third tier" competition. Any AFL funding they receive would be stripped and given to clubs to run their reserves team. If anything, from a Victorian point of view, I think more time should be spent investigating turning the TAC Cup clubs into VFL under 19 teams - having an identical set up to the WAFL, which seems to work a lot better and allows kids to progress through a pathway.
Portroo Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 18:00
GOALdenHawk wrote:- I don't think the mix would work. Lots of 18 year old kids would have to play AFL Reserves straight away, instead of the current set up where many of them (especially rookies) play VFL Reserves. .
18 year old kids played VFL/VFL Reserves when they first arrived at their VFL/AFL club for 80 years from when the reserves first started in 1919 to when the reserves actually finished and joined the VFA at the end of 1999,cant see that being a problem.
Dolphin Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 18:29
GOALdenHawk wrote:If anything, from a Victorian point of view, I think more time should be spent investigating turning the TAC Cup clubs into VFL under 19 teams - having an identical set up to the WAFL, which seems to work a lot better and allows kids to progress through a pathway.
Finally somebody else has seen the light!
BigV Fri, 9 Mar 2007 - 10:06
Actually, for all you passionate people that got your knickers in a knot at the ABC for giving Phil the flick and put pen to paper about it (or e-mails more likely), do something a little more useful and drop a line to Rohan Connolly at the Age and maybe provide him with some information he is severely lacking about the current VFL competition! I almost choked on my Weeties when I read his article this morning!! rconnolly@theage.com.au
NorthPort Topic starter Fri, 9 Mar 2007 - 11:52
Quote:Going back to 'ressies' could get fans closer to the game Rohan Connolly March 9, 2007 Related: VOTE Bring back the seconds? ONE of the great paradoxes of the modern game for diehard football supporters is that while they might see, hear and read a lot more about it than ever before, there's somehow a greater distance between them and the clubs they follow. Footy fans can jump on the internet and read biographies and the vital statistics of any one of 650-odd AFL players. It's actually seeing them with their own eyes and forming their own opinions, and attachments, that's often the problem. You used to be able to cast a keen eye over your team at training on your way home from work or school, something all but impossible these days with round-the-clock and closed sessions. Turn up at the same suburban ground on Saturday and you could come as close as humanly possible to some of football's biggest superstars, a lot harder now from the top deck of Telstra Dome. But it wasn't just about the present. It was about the future, courtesy of that flock of raw young kids with prodigious talent you could watch grow from football infancy, thanks to the reserve grade competition. advertisement advertisement Turn up to Arden Street, Victoria Park or Windy Hill at midday on a Saturday and you knew that even if your team was going to cop an inevitable hiding, you might at least see something in a lanky youngster with a guernsey number in the high 50s. Or watch the champion coming back from the long-term injury take those first tentative steps to a return. It's that connection that has been sadly lost since the restructuring of state-based football, which resulted in AFL clubs aligning themselves with those in the VFL, and the demise of the reserves competition at the end of 1999. The idea of restructuring football's second tier and reintroducing the "ressies" competition, although as yet nothing more than a proposal still seasons away, makes sense on several practical fronts. Most importantly it allows AFL clubs to have full-time guidance over the development of the players on their books from the time they are drafted. But it's also a proposal that works on an emotional level; by giving the fans back some "ownership" of their clubs and players, with a more realistic opportunity to watch them all, and playing for their team, and in their team's jumpers. No matter how keen an interest a supporter has in his or her AFL club, there's every chance these days that when a kid plucked from the draft finally makes his debut at the elite level, it will be the first time they have seen them in action of any sort. If you barrack for the Kangaroos, there's not a lot of chance to keep tabs on those players not yet part of the senior 22 when they're being farmed out to a Tasmanian or North Ballarat VFL team. Or, for that matter, much interest in what happens to those teams of which they're a part. Ditto Essendon and Bendigo Bombers, despite the moniker. It hasn't been a picnic for fans of the old VFA, either. The Northern Bullants, nee Preston, had a long and close association with Collingwood, sharing many of the same supporters, and players. Now the club based at Cramer Street in a Magpie-supporting stronghold is hooked up with the Magpies' mortal enemy Carlton. Collingwood, for its part, shares an uneasy marriage with Williamstown, a club steeped in its own proud tradition, and for many of whose older supporters, the thought of sharing anything with the Pies remains unpalatable. Sandringham has become a de facto Melbourne reserves. Coburg a dumping ground for Richmond. And so on. The alliances between AFL clubs and their VFL partners remain for the best part contrived and awkward. An AFL coach cannot guarantee his players are going to be used where and how he'd like in the VFL. Or in some cases that they're even going to be played in the senior side. AFL aspirants trying to make themselves noticed can play as well as possible and still get shoved aside for AFL club-listed "teammates". And they're just as awkward for the fans, too, their own club's players flung to distant locations and clad in unfamiliar colours. Perhaps it's time we went back to go forward with the return of the "ressies", those spindly kids with the high jumper numbers given a chance to perform in a team the fans care about. The VFA, VFL and the evolution of the twos 1877 ■ VFA established after first matches played in 1858. 1896 ■ Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, Fitzroy, Melbourne and South Melbourne break away from VFA to form the VFL. 1919 ■ Reserve grade formed. 1959 ■ Reserves matches first played as curtain-raisers to seniors. 1990 ■ VFL renamed AFL. 1999 ■ Last AFL reserves grand final, won by Essendon over St Kilda. 2000 ■ The VFL-AFL alignments are Box Hill Hawks-Hawthorn, Port Melbourne-Sydney, Sandringham-Melbourne, Werribee-Western Bulldogs and Williamstown-Western Bulldogs. ■ Revamped VFL competition begins with an 18-team format involving Melbourne-based AFL-listed players. ■ The stand-alone AFL clubs are Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond, Kangaroos and St Kilda. ■ The stand-alone VFL clubs are Bendigo Diggers, Coburg-Fitzroy, Frankston, North Ballarat, Northern Bullants and Springvale. ■ A number of VFL matches are played as AFL curtainraisers. 2001 ■ The VFL becomes a 16-team competition. Tasmania is admitted; Collingwood aligns with Williamstown; Richmond with Coburg, St Kilda with Springvale, Western Bulldogs with Werribee. ■ The Kangaroos forge links with the Ovens and Murray region, playing three matches in Lavington and become known as the Murray Kangaroos. ■ The stand-alone AFL clubs are Carlton, Essendon and Geelong. ■ The stand-alone VFL clubs are Bendigo Diggers, Frankston, North Ballarat, Northern Bullants, Tasmania. 2003 ■ The VFL is reduced to 13 teams as Carlton aligns with Northern Bullants, Essendon with Bendigo Diggers (becoming Bendigo Bombers) and Sydney withdraws its association with Port Melbourne, which aligns with the Kangaroos. 2006 ■ St Kilda’s affiliate, Springvale, becomes the Casey Scorpions and the Kangaroos align with Tasmania and North Ballarat.
NorthPort Topic starter Fri, 9 Mar 2007 - 11:53
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/03/08/117316…
Quote:VFL has role to play, says local footy boss Stephen Rielly March 9, 2007 THE chairman of AFL Victoria, Bob Tregear, said yesterday the VFL must continue to play a role in the 10 Victorian-based AFL clubs even if substantial change were required to the existing system. Tregear conceded that the gap between the VFL and AFL had widened to a point that it had begun to fail the interests of both. But he said that the idea of effectively replacing the VFL as the second tier of the game with an AFL reserves competition was not necessary. Setting up an AFL reserves competition is one of a range of options the AFL's game development department has begun to put to the wider football community as part of a review of second-tier football across the country. The project is expected to be concluded by the end of this year. advertisement advertisement To date, 14 of the 16 AFL clubs and the likes of AFL Victoria have been asked to consider, among other things, the merits of a national AFL reserves competition, a 12-team eastern seaboard reserves competition and a 10-team Victorian-based league. All would, for example, involve a return to larger list sizes and a diminution of the relevant state leagues. It is understood that several Victorian clubs have expressed enthusiasm for a national reserves competition. But even more have supported a stand-alone Victorian competition that would give back to the AFL clubs total control of the welfare and development of their players but marginalise the VFL to the point of threatening its existence. Western Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade was one yesterday who encouraged the creation of some form of AFL reserves competition. But his counterpart at Adelaide, Neil Craig, said he would prefer that South Australia kept the arrangement in which his players, and those of Port Adelaide, were farmed out to the clubs of the SANFL. "We are very lucky in this state to have the SANFL because of the quality of the competition it is," Craig said. "Our players go back to an environment where clubs are serious about playing and winning football. I think we have the best situation in our own backyard in Australia. If we lost that, to me, it would be a disadvantage for us as an AFL club and I think it is an advantage that both we have and Port have." The AFL disbanded its Victorian reserves competition 12 years ago in an attempt to establish through alignments with VFA-VFL teams a clear second tier of the game that it was hoped could straddle the gulf between elite AFL football and the game at a community level. According to Tregear, boss of the body that controls Australian football at a state level, that expectation has been only partly met and changes were required but not so radical as to see the VFL disappear. The interests of the AFL, he said, were not necessarily those of the game itself. "We've got a very strong commitment to our VFL clubs. They've come a long way with us over the last 12 years. We're in a much better situation than we were 12 years ago."
bcarbonaro Fri, 9 Mar 2007 - 19:40
BigV wrote:Actually, for all you passionate people that got your knickers in a knot at the ABC for giving Phil the flick and put pen to paper about it (or e-mails more likely), do something a little more useful and drop a line to Rohan Connolly at the Age and maybe provide him with some information he is severely lacking about the current VFL competition! I almost choked on my Weeties when I read his article this morning!! rconnolly@theage.com.au
I saw it when I was eating my breakfast as well and had to restrain myself from shaking my head feverishly.